Removing the Stigma with Steph Kastley

Mental Health First Aid is training that can teach the average person how to help others in crisis.  Steph Kastely busts the myths and breaks down some do's and don'ts when it comes to mental health.

Transcript

Bill Krieger (Host)  
Hello everyone and welcome to mi u us a wellbeing podcast. It's another wellbeing Wednesday here at Consumers Energy and I'm your host bill Krieger. Today my guest is Steph Castlereagh. She is a university counselor for Wayne State University. She also teaches Mental Health First Aid. So Steph, if you'd Introduce yourself, we'll get this conversation started.

Steph Kastley  
Yeah, hi. It's good to be here. My name is Steph kastelli. Everybody at Wayne State knows me as Steph. I'm a university counselor to with Wayne State University. And I also act as Wayne State University suicide prevention coordinator, Mental Health First Aid instructor, a lecturer, a doctoral supervisor, and new grad school student because I'm going back to school again, because I'm all about being a professional student and keep learning, just keep learning. But I've been a Mental Health First Aid instructor. And I always have to think about it. But my another anniversary is coming up. I've been an instructor since October 2018.

Bill Krieger (Host)  
So you've been doing this for a little while?

Steph Kastley  
A little bit. Yeah. Well, excellent.

Bill Krieger (Host)  
And you know, it's true that I have found the older I get, the more I understand that I can always learn something and I learned something new, every single day. So kudos for being a lifelong learner.

Steph Kastley  
Oh, yeah. Yep. I will always I imagine myself always being in school or trying to learn something new. So I'm over in the master's public health program right now. So very, very interesting. And still fun. I love school.

Bill Krieger (Host)  
Yeah, you know, I was a late bloomer, I got my undergrad when I was 38. And, you know, full disclosure here on that I was going to Officer Candidate School in the army, and I had to have a bachelor's degree in order to get my commission. So while I was going to Officer Candidate School, I was going to Central Michigan to get my bachelor's. But what I found out was I learned a bunch of stuff, too, is pretty awesome.

Steph Kastley  
Yeah. No, yeah. I got my bachelor's from Central Michigan. Yep. And I have my Master's in counseling and my PhD in counseling from Wayne State.

Bill Krieger (Host)  
All right, well, Fire Up Chips. Whoo. Great. So this will be airing in the month of October. And as we know, October 10, is world Mental Health Day. So I wanted, I thought it would be a great idea to bring you on stuff. And let's talk a little bit about Mental Health First Aid. That's how we met, I took your course over lunch hours for about four weeks. And it was an amazing experience. And I learned a ton about myself and about others through your your course. So I know, we're not going to do the whole course here in the in the matter of 30 minutes that we have. But could you talk a little bit about what Mental Health First Aid is, and maybe some tips and tricks that that are out there if we run into a situation?

Steph Kastley  
Sure. Well, Mental Health First Aid, you know, this is a structured eyes training, that's that's been around for over 20 years now. And the reason I really enjoy providing the training is that the training is designed for anyone, you don't have to be a mental health professional, or have a background in mental health or psychology, to be able to help somebody in need. And I know you probably heard this, me say this a few times in the course. But that, you know, I really enjoy the training because there's still a heavy stigma with mental health. And an individual may not even think about reaching out to a mental health professional, unless somebody they trust brings it up first. Odds are you or anyone is more likely to encounter somebody who's dealing with a mental health concern or a struggle before ever thinking of coming to talk to a mental health professional. That's how that's how the world works. People reach out to people they trust. So Mental Health First Aid is designed for anyone to kind of recognize maybe if someone's dealing with a mental health concern, or if someone's in a crisis situation, and to feel comfortable responding in that moment, not being a therapist, not having to be a mental health professional. But being there to respond the best you can until a crisis resolves itself because sometimes time helps with that, or to maybe help connect someone to professional services. What I really enjoy about the training too, and something that I've gotten feedback on is that it takes this the the scariness of mental health, and it reduces because sometimes, when we think about mental health or there's that panic or concern that I don't know what to do, I don't know what to say or You know what if I make things worse, Mental Health First Aid helps us calm that anxiety. It helps provide us kind of some structure into what to do because when we're nerve feeling nervous or panic, we sometimes don't make the best decisions and don't know what to do. So mental first aid takes away some of that anxiety and fear. And the training is designed for us to respond to some crisis situations to um, so like I mentioned, I'm a suicide prevention coordinator and part of mental first aid is assessing for risk of suicide or harm, but it's also about listening skills, being a non judgmental listener. And you know, I can't do it as a therapist, I can't give advice, but with mental first aid, you certainly can. People look for advice and suggestions and whatnot. And part of mental first aid is offering appropriate suggestions. And sometimes those suggestions are professional help, or self help. Sometimes, and this hurts me to say, as a counselor, sometimes someone doesn't need counseling. I'm a little biased, though, I think I've one could use counseling a little bit here and there, but I am a counselor. But sometimes people just need to boost up that self care in their coping strategies.

But Mental Health First Aid is also designed to help someone get a overview of some of our common mental health disorders. And the reason for that is because there's a lot of misconceptions around mental health. And another thing that I like to add to the training and it is in the new curriculum is working on how we talk about mental health, especially with mental health day coming up. It's how we talk about mental health, because we never know 100% what someone is going through at that moment, or what they're bringing with them. So we talk about mental health in a way that doesn't pass judgment in a way that let someone know that, hey, it's okay to talk to me if you got something going on. But since I've been an instructor, and with our Wayne State suicide prevention initiative on, which is why I continue to provide these trainings, part of the reason we've trained, I always have to think about it. But we are Yeah, we've definitely passed 4000 individuals we've trained in mental health first state. So that's 4000 individuals that you know, if you know they see somebody who may be dealing with a mental health concern, they feel a bit more comfortable responding I am, I like to focus a lot in mental first aid in our trainings on what we as individuals can do. Because sometimes thinking about mental health as a, as a public health concern, that can feel overwhelming. But if we can make an impact on someone, maybe then that individual can make an impact on someone. And that can lead to bigger change and, and helping more people. But, you know, I can talk forever about Mental Health First Aid. But the long, long answer short is that it's a training that's really designed to help us feel a bit more comfortable talking about mental health, recognizing some signs, and just feeling comfortable checking in with people. Because sometimes we go about our day, and maybe we are struggling or someone's struggling and we don't talk about it until somebody asks us. So it's just feeling comfortable checking in with people to

Bill Krieger (Host)  
well, in, you know, checking in with people can mean a lot of things. And one thing I took back from the class is, many times we think if we ask the hard question, then we will plant an idea and someone had So for instance, if someone is struggling, many times people are afraid to say, Are you thinking about hurting yourself? Because then we think that we're going to plant that idea in their head? What are your thoughts on that?

Steph Kastley  
Yeah, no, that's that's an excellent point. That that is a that is a misconception. If somebody is thinking about suicide, or thinking about hurting themselves, an individual asking that question that's not going to make somebody do that that's not going to plant the idea in someone's head, it's already there. Usually, asking those types of questions reduces the chance of someone hurting themselves, because it's out in the open. People don't want to hurt themselves. People don't want to kill themselves. They just don't know what else to do. And that can be really hard to imagine if we haven't been there, ourselves. So asking the question, Are you thinking to hurt yourself or even the question, Are you thinking about suicide? It's an awkward question. It's always going to be an awkward question. But as awkward as it is for us to ask it. I bet you it's even more awkward for that individual what they're going through. asking the question, let somebody know that if you're comfortable asking it, maybe it's okay to talk to you too. But it's an underscore tangible concern, we feel worried that if we ask the wrong thing, someone's going to hurt themselves, or they're not going to want to talk to us. In my experience of working with clients who report suicidal ideation, or have suicide attempts as part of their mental health history, being very open and direct with questions, are you thinking of hurting yourself? Or you're thinking about suicide? In my experience, people are honest. It's just getting to that question first, because there's stigma on mental health. And there's even more so just a heaviness feeling that comes up when we talk about self harm or suicide. But that is a misconception. If we ask the question, it's actually going to increase the chance of somebody letting you know what's going on and even thinking about getting help.

Bill Krieger (Host)  
So along those lines, just very high level because like I said, we're not we're not really doing the training here. So what are some questions that are, are good or okay to ask? And, and I want to preface that with what you were talking about. Sometimes we need to get comfortable, comfortable being uncomfortable in asking those questions in order to kind of get a good result. But what are some things that are that are okay? Or maybe that we should ask if we see someone who's just maybe not acting themselves? Sure.

Steph Kastley  
Well, you know, what it's in when we when we talk about assessing risk for suicide in the training, we talk a lot about asking the question, Are you thinking about hurting yourself? Are you thinking about suicide? But there's actually no, we don't jump right into that question. It's asking somebody, you know, how are they doing? Or if you and what I tell people in training is that you know, your friends, you know, your family, if you know that they're acting a little different, or something seems off trust that feeling. Let people know why you're asking. So if I'm working with a student, and that's my population, I work with university students. If I noticed, one of the students I work with just doesn't seem like themselves for a session, I'll let them know what I've noticed. Like, Hey, I noticed you You seem a little bit a little bit down today, what's what's going on? You know, I've noticed that you that you haven't really been been acting like yourself. And we can ask, you know, is there something going on? Or what's going on? Or is there something you want to talk about? In part of Mental Health First Aid to is with, with those who are trained in it, something that I like to mention is that people who attend the training, obviously, we want to help people. And a big thing to keep in mind, though, is that we can do so much. You know, we may try to reach out try to help someone and someone may not want that help. At that time. That's totally okay. But letting someone know what you've observed, mental first aid is about responding to observable changes. So if you notice, maybe a co worker has been late for meetings, or maybe you notice that someone just seems sad or tired, or something that has kind of hit your radar, that that's kind of a change. Mental Health First Aid wants us to fight those assumptions that Oh, so and so's just having a rough day. We're not assuming anything. That's why we're curious. We're asking somebody What's going on? And odds are, your assumptions are right. But it has such a bigger impact if someone can confirm that. Or if someone can tell us what they're going through. With Mental Health First Aid, we want to encourage participants to let individuals share their stories, let people tell them what they're going, what's going on, what do they need help with right now. Because too often with mental health or just healthcare in general, sometimes people feel like they don't have a voice in their mental health care. So letting someone be able to voice that, but nice, open questions, to kind of build up a conversation, because of mental first aid, we're responding to changes. And then we're asking questions to kind of get a better picture of what someone's going through. And from there, we can either encourage appropriate professional help encourage mental health, let somebody know about resources, or maybe offer some suggestions on self care to someone. But all starts with just a nice simple question of asking somebody, how are they doing? And my joke about that is usually if we ask somebody, how are you doing? What's the first thing we say? Okay, fine, good. And you, right? But with mental first date is taken one little step back, taking a little slower asking somebody how they're doing, and then being curious. So if someone says they're doing okay, kind of ask them Oh, awesome. What have you been up to? Right? So it's, it's taken at one one level deeper with those questions, but it's it takes away that fear of having to ask clinical questions or mental health jargon. It's about us being genuine with the people we care about. And I really encourage that with Mental Health First Aid. You know, when my participants are done with their training, or even at the beginning, I mentioned, I initially said the trainings appropriate for for the people you see every day are the people you interact with the people you care about. Because it's really easy for us to assume somebody we know is just having a rough day, because you know, that person, but mental first days about us just being curious about everything?

Bill Krieger (Host)  
Well, I don't think we can overstate the importance of asking the question and then listening to the answer, right? Because sometimes we want to just jump to, oh, I know how to fix this before they even told you what's going on. So that kind of leads me to what are some of the things that maybe we should stay away from when we're having these conference?

Steph Kastley  
Ah, well, I mentioned, you know, giving suggestions and advice a bit ago, and you know, advice does come up. But the important thing is that someone may tell you that they're going through something, and you've gone through something similar. I mean, I work with university students. So sometimes I work with students who are struggling with their dissertation, or their struggle of class. And I'm like, you know what, I've been there too. But it's not about me. So when someone shares what they're going through, we may go, Oh, you know, what I went through something like that. And this is what I did. And I can really hear people say that, and they're coming from a good place. But the important thing is that we want someone to tell us what they're going through. And we can share if we feel comfortable doing so that we've gone through something similar, we haven't gone through the exact same thing. But we've gone through something similar. So I have students who sometimes may be working on something like time management, for example, I may disclose it, you know, what I used to struggle with staying on task with things and, and you know, I did this, this or this. And the important thing, though, is that I always check in, if that individual that sounds like something they want to try. If that sounds like it'd be a good fit for them. Because often, you know, we go into, Oh, I know how to fix this. And we're coming from a good place when we think about that. But if it's not going to be a good fix, or a good solution for that individual, they may not try it, they may not want to talk to you again, because you weren't really listening to them. Or they may try it and it doesn't work. And then it's associated with you that it didn't work. So it's always you know, we can give helpful suggestions. Advice giving is when the focus is really just on us and not the other individual. But we want to resist that urge to try to happen and problem solve and fix something unless someone asks us What do you think I should do. And then we can offer our suggestion but sandwich it, make sure you check with the individual after that, if it's something that's going to be a good fit for them or something they at least just want to try out?

Bill Krieger (Host)  
Well, and I like that I like that example of sandwiching it sort of seeing if they want the advice, given the advice, and then seeing if that's really what they were looking for. And I and I wanted to share with you. You know, for the audience, we talked about this prior to the podcast, but I wanted to share with you that recently. And I'll be very vague and high level because I don't want to expose who this person is. But recently, I did receive a call from someone who is a friend of mine who I've known professionally for a while. And the message was kind of reaching out saying, Hey, how's it going? And it was odd that they were reaching out to me. So I asked some questions through the instant messenger in Facebook in quickly realized that this person was really struggling. So got their phone number, gave him a call and talked for a while and asked some of the difficult questions. But the interesting thing is, is I did a lot of listening in kind of trying to ferret out what's going on, ask some questions and then realized partway through a conversation that this was not something that I was going to be able to help resolve. And so I got them in touch with the suicide hotline. Oh, who were very responsive. And they connected in really helpless individuals. So I took the lessons that I had gleaned from the class and really applied them in it wasn't like I was ticking off a list or checkboxes. It just felt very natural to work through that progression in Thankfully, the person was willing to take that next step to talk to a professional and we're able to connect them and get them on the right path. But I want to say thanks for the class because it really helped to help get us there. But one of the things We talked about prior to, was this idea that they may not have reached out themselves to an 800 number without having talked to someone that they trusted. So can we talk just a little bit about that as well? Sure, yeah.

Steph Kastley  
And you know, the reason I'm with mental first aid is that we try to take that, that that fear away from from talking about mental health, is because someone is more likely to think about mental health help, or self care if somebody they trust brings it up first. So like, with what you just shared there, that individual may not have been willing to talk to somebody on a hotline, unless you had brought it up first, because they trusted you. There's still a lot of stigma with mental health, I think we've done some really good work at pushing back against the stigma. But there still is a lot of stigma and talking about mental health, or even talking to a mental health professional. So with Mental Health First Aid, and I'm going to be moving and talking to you just because I don't want too much background noise for us. But when it comes to mental health, if somebody a friend or a family member can really encourage it, someone is more likely to follow through with it than me a mental health professional, of course, I'm going to recommend mental health help, that's who I am what I do. But someone may not know me, they may not trust me. So the big takeaway from Mental Health First Aid, is that no matter where you're at what previous training you've had, you can really make a big impact on someone and really be that first early intervention, to help somebody down the path for recovery, or at least just getting help.

Bill Krieger (Host)  
In good to know. And I'm glad that I was able to share that story with you and with the audience, just as an example of how small things can really help someone out. While stuff I hate to say it, but we are coming to the to the end of the podcast Time flies when you're, when you're having fun, it's been a great conversation. And I appreciate you taking the time out. But before we go, is there anything that you would like to share with the audience?

Steph Kastley  
The big thing is that I'd like to share is that when it comes to mental health, something that I hear a lot of times with the students I work with when I've done trainings is that there's this anxiety about saying the wrong thing about saying something that's going to cause someone's mental health to decline. And something I say in all my trainings, and you probably heard this if our training is just that. That's our brain making everything personal. Even if you slip up in your words and asking a question or talking about mental health, if you're coming from a place of caring that individuals going to hear it even if you stumble, even if you're nervous, that's okay. The important thing is that you did your best to reach out to someone. But if you're ever interested in Mental Health First Aid, mental first day.org has a list of trainings that are probably in your area. But you're also more than welcome to, to reach out to me as well. Because we usually do a training at least once a month right now. And I, I do this on my on my own time. Because it's important. And you know, if someone's willing to listen to me talk for five plus hours, and, you know, be with me, I'll be there. But it's been great talking about mental health, and I appreciate you having me on and dealing with the random background noises that come from just a virtual work and, you know, working outside in the backyard.

Bill Krieger (Host)  
It's just the I you know, don't usually like to use the term but I think it's our new normal, like, this is how we're gonna, we're gonna work and it's a, it's a great way to get to know people. So thanks again for taking the time out. And I look forward to us having conversations in the future as well.

Awesome. Thank you. And thank

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