Up a Creek with Jorden and Matt

In July of 2021 Jorden Wakeley and Matt Meersman won the Consumers Energy AuSable River Canoe Marathon.  Not only did they win, they crushed the previous record that had stood since 1994.  Listen as they talk about teamwork, friendship, and their plan for this year's race.  

Transcript

Description

Me You Us, sponsored by Consumers Energy, dives deeper into the physical, financial, emotional, social, and professional pillars that make up our overall well-being and contribute to our mental health. Through the sharing of personal experiences and conversations with industry experts, we can collaboratively support one another and increase our consideration for the personal well-being of those around us.

In July of 2021 Jorden Wakeley and Matt Meersman won the Consumers Energy AuSable River Canoe Marathon.  Not only did they win, but they also crushed the previous record that had stood since 1994.  Listen as they talk about teamwork, friendship, and their plan for this year's race.

William Krieger  

The views and opinions of the guests of the Me You Us podcast do not represent the views and opinions of Consumers Energy. Hello everyone and welcome to me you us a wellbeing podcast. It's another wellbeing Wednesday here at Consumers Energy. And I'm your host Bill Krieger. Today I have two very special guests, Jorden Wakeley and Matt Meersman. Now before we get into their story, I'll have them introduce themselves. So Jorden, if you’d introduce yourself, we'll get the conversation started.

Jorden  

Jorden Wakeley. I'm 32 years old, born and raised and Grayling Michigan. Mountain bike racer ski racer, fell in love with the canoe marathon at a very early age. I've had family that have paddled since way back in the day. And you know, following that race and watching my uncle's feed for Jeff and Serge, you know, they’re some of the best paddlers in the world. Now that just that got my attention, and I was hooked from day one of watching that race.

William Krieger  

Well, excellent. And it's kind of just a sneak peek for the audience. We will be talking about the Au Sable marathon from last year and upcoming this year. Well, thank you for introducing yourself. And Matt, same for you could introduce yourself, we'll get this conversation started.

Matt  

Sounds good. Thanks, Bill. Yeah, my name's Matt Meersman, I'm 45 years old and born and raised in South Bend, Indiana, just across the border from Michigan, the river that I live on the St. Joe river flows up into Michigan and always been a river guy, I guess, fortunate enough to have found some work around the river started with a canoe rental business and ended up expanding into some natural resources. River conservation work that I do now, both on the Indiana side of the line, as well as on the Michigan side of the line. So my heart's always been in the river. And I tell folks that I found canoe racing as a way to sort of sanction all the time I wanted to spend on the river, it's a little easier to feel better about it when you can tell someone you’re training instead of just going out there to explore the river. So trying to get on as much as I can.

William Krieger  

So sometimes it's goofing off. And sometimes it's actual training, right? But no one needs to know the difference.

Matt  

That's right. It's a whole lot more of the training than it is the goofing off these days. But it you know; it's some people can't believe it when they see it going by at the rate that we go. But it's actually a lot of fun. I mean, even when you're sweating and breathing hard. It's a lot of fun being on the river.

William Krieger  

Yep, I can believe in being from Michigan. Almost my whole life spent a little time in the Navy. So I was around water then. But water is a very important part of being here in Michigan. So for the audience, what we're going to talk about today is the Consumers Energy Au Sable marathon. And I know that back in 2020, we didn't have one, because I'm going to use the famous term because COVID hit. And so we did not have our marathon. But last year we did. And I'm talking to the team that crushed the previous record, they came in at a record time of 13:.09 If I'm not mistaken. And that beat a record that was set back in 1994. But before we get into how you guys did this, as I read the story, it was pretty amazing. And I do have a question for you, Jorden about this, too. So Hang on to your hat. There's a question here about that. But I'm wondering, here's a guy from Grayling, and Jorden, very familiar with Grayling spent 11 years in the Michigan National Guard. Spent a lot of time up there. And even after I retired in 2010, my wife and I still come to Grayling, because I just love it. It's an amazing place to be. So that it's a great city, a great area. And Matt, you come you hail from Indiana. So how did you two guys meet? I mean, were you like paddling north and south and just having to meet on the river or whatever.

Jorden  

So I've known of Matt for probably 10 years now. I mean, we've crossed paths back in the day when I was just up and coming racing. And you know, I'd heard his name. We're actually both partnerless for the canoe race maybe eight or nine years ago. It was kind of a spur of the moment thing. You know, Matt called me up day before the race and asked if I wanted to do the race with him. And I hadn't paddled very much at all that year. And I was like, alright, yeah, I've got nothing else going on. So drove up to paradise to Tahquamenon River race, and we'd never paddled together just jumped in the boat and didn't have a very good race. My, my legs fell asleep, like 10 minutes into the race and I just I took everything I had just to finish that race and I felt really, really bad that that happened, but we finished it and Matt was super cool about it. And I knew from that day on that, you know, Matt was a good guy, and you are just any other person would have, you know, gotten on me pretty hard about that. Matt didn't so that that was that was a big eye opener for me.

Matt  

Bill, I think one thing that a lot of people don't understand outside of the canoe racing world, which is a pretty small world, unless you're in Grayling or down in Oscoda, where everyone knows what this thing is. But you get much out of Northern Michigan, and no one's really heard of the sport. But there is if you are interested in canoe racing and you want to compete against the best teams, you go to Michigan, I mean, that's just what it is. I mean, there's an argument to be made that up in Shawinigan, Canada right now is maybe one of the hotbeds, there's a lot of young guys coming out of there that are really good. But for a long time in the United States anyway, Michigan's had the most competitive canoe racing scene anywhere. And what that means is that we have a circuit all summer long, that we're racing just about every weekend on a river in, in northern Michigan, primarily, but also, we get down Ann Arbor and down to Muskegon and some of the other rivers down closer to me. So anyway, I've spent almost 20 years now driving to Michigan just about every weekend to compete on that circuit. So, you know, you get to know you especially know the names of the guys that are in front of you. And so, you know, Jorden happened to be one of those guys on a year that I didn't expect it. And so certainly captured my attention at that point. And, you know, gosh, just the story that you may have read, I don't know if you did or not, you mentioned reading some of the stories, but actually, you know, we were aware of each other, we had done that race, you know, gosh, 10 years ago, or whatever it was. But then, you know, Jorden had taken his focus back to mountain biking and wasn't really canoe racing quite as actively. And it just happened to be last winter. You know, so two winters ago, I was up in Grayling, for a friend's father to be party and I went into the shop that Jorden works at, which is an outdoor store, and I needed to get my skis waxed. And Jorden was back there in the back. And basically it was like, you know, oh yeah, Jorden’s been talking about you says he wants to race a marathon with you, I didn't even see him. And I said she knew Jorden wants to race a marathon when they will go out when the thing and that's just the kind of confidence that I had, I knew this guy was a real athlete. So for me, it was an incredible opportunity to give something a shot, you know, and being a local guy, it's just really attractive. For an outsider, like me, I've done a number of races with guys from Canada with guys from New York, all over the country. And, and I have to be the local, you know, I have to be the one that knows the river and, and with Jorden, that was the case, he brought the crew, he brought you know, all the feed spots, all that kind of stuff. It's just really nice. 

William Krieger  

So I just want to kind of wrap my head around this, right? This is this must be a small community, if you can, if you can pick up the phone and go, Hey, dude, like, I want to run this race this weekend. But I don't have anybody would you do it, and then boom, it happens. Now the outcome, the outcome of the race might not have been good at but looks like the outcome of that meeting was pretty amazing. In the military, we like to say we may have lost the battle, but we definitely won the war on that one. For sure. So Jorden, I do want to ask, though, so, you know, Matt comes walk into the shop and like, I want to I want to do this race with this guy. So I'm thinking that you guys have been like after that first, you know, match made in heaven there that you guys were like, training together? And it  sounds like, Nope, it's just a winter before Jorden, you're like, Dude, I want to I want to do this race with you. And Matt's, like, let's do this race. And not only that, let's crush it. So essentially, what happened? So what made you think of Matt and want to want to race with him again?

Jorden  

You know, it's, that's the crazy thing. And like I said, this, the first time we ever paddle together was almost 10 years ago, and we had not paddled together since then, until last year. So I just I had a gut feeling. I mean, Matt, Matt's got the results. I've watched him. And I knew, you know, he's a light, solid stern guy. He's the results, the results really speak volumes. And, you know, I wanted to have a great marathon this year. And I thought Matt was my best option for that. You know, the first time we jumped on the boat together after not battling for 10 years, it just clicked. Just everything matched up perfect. And I knew right from that first moment that it was going to be a good season.

Matt  

You mentioned it being 10 years. And not only did we not do any races together that interim, but you know, I mean, this is the age of cell phones and text messages and everything. And you know, so Jorden, I had connected that time. 10 years ago over text, I had his number in my phone, you won't see there wasn't another exchange for 10 years, you know, I mean, it was like things went black.

William Krieger  

Is that because his legs fall asleep and you never called him, again?

Matt  

No, not at all. Actually.

Jorden  

He did call a few times to check up on me make sure I could I still function.

Matt  

So that's true. I did it. But no, honestly, though I mentioned it earlier, I think it's mostly because Jorden turned his attention towards the bike. I mean, he did have at least one more marathon that I remember the one that I remember him beat me in. But it was sort of a deal where I don't even think, you know, I was on his radar, he wasn't on mine, just I think it was a different kind of year than last year. Last year, he was really focused on, you know, having the best overall performance he could have. Whereas in that other race that I'm thinking of, he raced with a woman from Grayling, and you know, was dead set on winning the mixed battle, which is, which is a whole different thing.

William Krieger  

Well, and I do want to ask you a question before, before this leaves me in Jorden, I'll ask you first and then Matt, I'll ask you. So, you know, Jorden, you, and you're in your 30s. Matt, you're in your 40s. I remember my 30s and 40s, because I'm in my 50s now, and I remember my level of athleticism in, in both of those timeframes of my life. But in a lot of sports, 30 and 40 would be considered kind of older for a sport. So Jorden, when it comes to paddling from your perspective, are you just kind of getting started? Like, like, you got a long time to go. Or are you feeling like I'm getting a little bit old for this?

Jorden  

You know, that's a question I've heard a lot lately. I've been racing my bike since I was 14 years old. And I feel like I'm reaching the peak age at that, you know, I've got the 17- and 18-year-old kids that are giving me a hard time, you know, at races and paddling, I actually think that I'm just starting to get into my prime. You look, look at the results from back in the day, the last 15 years, the guys who are winning the marathon were 40 to 46 years old. And that gives me hope. That there's a few more marathons in me competitively.

William Krieger  

Alright, excellent, Matt, same question for you. Because you're a couple years older.

Matt  

Yeah, just a couple. Um, it's really incredible. And when I talk to people about the sport, you know, especially down here in Indiana, where no one knows about it, you know, the number one thing that I hit on is, is the ability for longevity in the sport is really incredible. And Jorden spoke to it, you know when it was just, it's fine. It's inspiring to anybody who's under 50. But you could still go out and win this race, the guys that were doing it have been and, frankly, some of our biggest competition is in my age category. So I mean, it's not like I'm that much of an outlier at my age, and not only just from the past, but even the current competitors that we're facing. There are some really good ones that are my age. And then Jorden, I know this, but there's, there's a couple guys out there that are older than me that if they got into a boat, we could have some trouble with them. I mean, it's no joke, it's really incredible. So I don't know whether you know where I'm at in terms of my, you know, peak, how much good I got, but I, I've seen other people do it, I'm determined to do it myself. And I love it, I'm putting more time into it than ever before my body seems to be responding well, I don't have, you know, any nagging injuries or anything like that. And, and honestly, there's a part of me that thinks, the later I get in life, the more I'm able to give to this, it's just other things are sort of slowing down. And I'm able to give more attention to this. So it's kind of encouraging.

William Krieger  

Well, and that makes sense. And I think the more you take care of yourself, the longer you can do things and as an example. So a few months ago, I interviewed this guy named Herb Elfring, right, I had heard that he had survived the attack on Pearl Harbor. And he was turning 100 years old in March. And so I went out and interviewed him to talk about Pearl Harbor. But what I learned was, he had this incredible life before he really went to college because of the war and then he went to college came to work for Consumers Energy for 35 years and then 36 years ago, he retired and through our conversation I learned that two years ago on the golf course he hits a hole in one up until two years ago he was still downhill skiing. You know he rides his bike he goes for walks it's a testament to I don't I don't I don't think age has anything to do with it. I think it just determination and whether or not you're taking care of yourself for the most part. The other question I had to was, so this marathon is just straight up marathon like it's not broken out into age groups or anything like that.

Matt  

There are some bonuses so they're it’s kind of nice. You know, the main thing everyone's going for is your overall position, but they offer some pretty good bonuses for different categories like one man, one woman I mentioned mixed earlier. They do also have some age bonuses. So if you're the first team where both people though it has to be both people being over forty, Jorden is really holding me back from some extra prize. You know, he's really weighing me down and the boat Bill, that's the thing. But you know, so there are some bonuses like that. But overall, no, we're all competing against the mean, the women's teams are competing heads up against us. We all start at the same time. And we all got to do the same six portages around the Consumers dams. And, you know, there's no, there's no ladies tees in our sport.

William Krieger  

Yes. And that, you know, it's interesting you say that because my wife is a golfer, right? And she's really good. And I'm not so good that she gets hit from the lady’s tees, but she could hit from the proteins and still just kicked my butt all over the golf course. I don't think I don't think that's fair.  So Jorden, I do have a question for you as I looked through this, and it really kind of spelled out how you guys, you know, got in the water and what the competition was like, but it sounds like you guys actually took your lead at the Wakeley bridge. Is that a coincidence?

Jorden  

So my whole goal i really wanted to lead the race at Wakeley bridge. It didn't happen like that. But probably 15 minutes below Wakeley bridge, we took the lead and the next bridge, we went through McMaster’s bridge, I remember five minutes from going under that bridge, I look back and I told Matt as like, you've got to be very, very loud when you call your switches because it's going to be insane at this bridge when you know, the local boy comes through in the lead. It's going to be deafening.

Matt  

And for people who never experienced the Asaba marathon that the bridges along the way, you know, they shut them down to traffic, they light them up and 1000s of people come out and cover these bridges. And I just don't think people can comprehend without either at least seeing a video of it or being there themselves. Ideally, what it's like to go through at midnight or one o'clock in the morning and have that bridge just light up and you can't even hear yourself think as you go through there. It's and you've been out in the wilderness prior to that, you know, you're in the middle of nowhere, darkness, silence, and you come up on that. It's just incredible.

William Krieger  

That's got to be very motivating. 

Matt  

Definitely, we got a thing called Bridge paddlers. We talked about people who just light it up at the bridge. And so you can impress the crowd, and then you got to shut it back down. Because you can't sustain that.

William Krieger  

I gotta be honest with you, sometimes when I’m out running, you know, I'm running at my pace, right? And then I'll see a car, or a neighbor come by, and I'm like, Oh, I gotta slow. I gotta, I gotta wait on that grand of a scale. But I say in there. Oh, yeah. You know, I have another question too. So you guys talked about feeds. And I read it in the articles. And so Jorden, can you tell me what that means?

Jorden  

So it's, uh, you know, the race is usually 14 and a half to 19 hours long. So every three, four hours, were meeting with a pit crew, essentially to get nutrition, you know, bottles, extra T shirts, paddles, stuff like that. That's without a feed crew without a good feed crew that you couldn't do that race. It's just, it's not possible. Solo one run down like it's not going to happen.

William Krieger  

So when you so you're talking about like a pitstop? Do you? Are these predetermined? Or can you like, kind of figure out like, oh, you know, I'm in this situation right now. I'm not sure I want to stop and do this. Can you? Like, skip around? How's that work?

Jorden  

They're definitely predetermined. And actually, last year's marathon success had a lot to do with where we took our first feed and where the other team took their first feed. But later on into the race, I mean, you see, you see your feed team, probably every hour and a half to two hours. And if you need something and you don't have that feed plan, you can always get something from them.

Matt  

Yeah, Jorden mentioned, you know, a good feed crew how critical it is. And when we say that the feeds are predetermined, that just means like, between you and your crew, you've talked about where we're going to feed at but you know, really, fortunately, we didn't have this happen last year, but you know, a really nimble crew, sometimes there's mistakes, things happen you tip over you lose your food, and they can respond by finding another spot that may be different from what you had talked about but to make sure to get you your nutrition when you need it. So that happens in some of the best cruise like you know, they'll find some crazy road end in the middle of nowhere to be able to you know, get you go and so you're not going for full two hours without any food or drink.

William Krieger  

So it's a pretty amazing thing because I you know, I pictured, silly me, I picked you guys out on the server panel along you know, for your 13 Almost 14 hours. I didn't think about oh, well they probably need to eat they probably need to reapply sunscreen. If you're like me. You have to put that stuff on every 10 minutes. You know Maybe I lose a paddle. Maybe I break a paddle, maybe something happens. So that's good to know. And I don't know how many people in the audience understand that that's out there as well. 

Matt  

Yeah. Bill on that like, I think it's, you know, canoe racing itself again outside of Grayling and Oscoda. The whole concept of canoe racing seems like an oxymoron. I mean, most people think of canoe and racing as opposite things like a canoe is something you do you float down, you drink a beer, you look at the birds, whatever, you know, it's not something I mean, if they were to see what we're doing, they wouldn't even think of it as canoeing and, and you use the word of the pit stops. Well, for the top teams, these aren't stops, we don't, we don't stop, we literally are going through, they're at, you know, five to 10 miles an hour, and they're just getting in harm's way they put themselves in harm's way. They're, they're waiting out into the river, and trying to hand us things as we go flying by in the middle of the night. Like it's, you know, there's been some serious injuries of people getting hit, trying to feed and it might not necessarily be their team that hit him, which almost makes it even worse. But there's been people that have some broken legs and stuff from getting hit by canoes trying to feed.

William Krieger  

So this would be similar to what you see in a marathon where they were they run past the hydration stations and just grab a cup and continue going. Yeah, that that kind of completes the picture for me, then you're not you're not pitstop at all, I get it. That's like changing your tires on the go and a NASCAR race. Yeah, exactly. I can see where people will get hurt doing that. Definitely, I kind of want to rewind a little bit back to that fateful day. In that winter, when Matt, you walked into the shop and Jorden’s like, hey, we want to do this, what was that train up like for the two of you. Because you know, you think of it, you can think of it in two ways. One from, you know, December, January to July is a long time. But for what you're going to be doing, it's not really a long time.

Matt  

One of the things this is really incredible about our sport, it makes what Jorden did even more amazing, is that it's a really unique, I don't want to say motion, it is a motion, but it's a really unique muscle group that you have to develop to be able to do this. And, and so what you find is, you tend to, it takes a while before you really come into you to your prime in this sport, if you want to call it that. It doesn't matter what age you're at, when you start, but you need a certain number of years under your belt to really develop not just the skills, but literally the muscle memory to be to compete at a top level or to compete at your best, let's say, in this sport. And so, you know, a lot of us who are really going after we don't really ever stop, I mean, we're still training on it. And, and I think when I say it's a little bit unusual for Jorden, I'll let you tell, uh, let him tell you about, you know, how his has been, because of his mountain biking career or skiing, either one, he's got a lot of other options and things that he does, but for me, you know, I don't stop I paddle all through this fall and into the winter. And, you know, coming into that that time, again, right on the heels of COVID. That's, that's important in this story, I think. And I think it's important to Jorden story of what he was thinking about at the time. COVID played a role was same for me. And it played a different role. And that is, when everything shut down, I was still able to do what I love to do. I mean, maybe I couldn't race at the level that I was racing, because a lot of the races got cancelled, like the marathon. But man, I paddled more than ever in 2020. So, you know, I was coming into 2021, like, ready for a marathon again, you know, and so I had no idea who I was going to partner up with. But the idea of like, getting back into a big race was, you know, I'm ready. I felt really, really ready.

William Krieger  

So Jorden, from your perspective, how did that look for you?

Jorden  

You know, with the whole COVID thing. All my bike races were canceled. And that kind of another opportunity arose. You know, I bought a canoe, and you know, I had started paddling, and I enjoyed it. And there was this rumor that marathons, probably it will happen. So I started training hard, I skied all winter. And, you know, up until the first race of the season, we still had no idea of the marathon was going to happen. So we do it the first race of the season, we want it and then after, after the race is over, they announced that, hey, the marathon is going to happen. And that that was all it took for me to, you know, put everything I had into canoe racing. Prior to that, you know, in the last, I've done my first marathon in 2008, I did three in a row. And I took eight years off, you know, that was a peak of my mountain bike racing career. And I you know, put like Matt said, it takes a different muscle group to paddle and as a cyclist you want to be as small and lean as possible and paddling packs on the muscle for me, you know, makes it bigger, going uphill, slower. But like I said, I'm kind of getting at My peak past my prime in mountain bike racing, and I kind of looked at paddling as the next avenue to succeed in the sport. And that's, I mean, like I said, I think hopefully there's a couple more years of that. 

William Krieger  

I don't know, I can't predict things, but it sounds like there might be. Sounds like there just might be. I did have a question, though. So I read some of these articles that were out there. You guys talked about you guys had a couple of big wins early in the year and all of that we had some setbacks, also. So Jorden, can you tell me what, you know what some of those setbacks were? And then Matt also, if you want to answer that.

Jorden  

Like I said, that when, when the season started, we were on fire, like winning every local race by minutes. And then, you know, competence was pretty high. And then the two big races on the Isabeau leading up to the marathon, we actually lost to the team that we figured was going to be our toughest competition in the marathon itself. So, you know, there was definitely some self-doubt there, there was some frustrations, and luckily, Matt and I were able to talk through it. And we knew our plan, going into a race that's four or five times longer than the ones we had just lost that we were confident in our ability to have that long, long distance grind, as opposed to a two-and-a-half-hour sprint, essentially.

William Krieger  

So I gotta, before you bring that to read, I gotta, I gotta think about this for a second, a two-hour sprint. That's pretty incredible. But I guess that's what it is, right?

Jorden  

That's what it is, especially compared to the marathon. I mean, the marathon, there's this start of the marathon is very fast and hectic. But I mean when you're when you're doing these 20-to-25-mile canoe races there. They're all out. I mean, you get out of the boat, and you're shot like you're, it's tough on you. Yeah,

Matt  

Jorden, I both, you know, train with technology, we got heart rate monitors. And if you look at the data from those things, you know, you see that the kind of heart rate that you can maintain for you know, especially a one-to-two-hour race, there's just no possible way, you could do that for 14 hours. So it really is a different level. And, you know, they there, they were setbacks, from the standpoint of it was a very different result than what we had seen all year. But we really chose to kind of focus on some of the good thing that was there. Namely, we were right there with them in both of those races, you know, they weren't, like crushing us, we didn't fall to pieces or anything like that, you know, we were right there. And just knowing we had all that extra time in the big one, to make something else happen with it. You know, you know, that's what we chose to focus on, I think. And I honestly tell people that had we not gone through that, that particular adversity, the first loss, especially, I don't think that we probably could have trusted in each other the way that you need to be able to do that there's a word I've been using lately. It's like, in order to bury yourself, I mean, in order to go under to give it everything you have. You got it in a two-man sport, you've got to know the other person's doing that. Like, if there's any doubt in your head, that they're not giving it everything they've got, there's no way you can, you know, you're going to go to that to that extreme level yourself. So I think we kind of had a real heart to heart about that. And it really, for me, helped us in the long run.

William Krieger  

Well, I found that I've gained, I've learned the most from the most adverse situations, right. I know, people say it all the time. But if you just if you just go out and win every race, you don't learn anything, I don't think. But it's in those times where we're like, oh my God, I don't know if I can do this. The least for me, that's where I've learned the most and gained the most. So I do want to ask you guys a question. You know, so for me, I'm in a job that I love to do, and go into work every day is not like work for me to be honest with you. But I do have those times where I'm like, You know what, I just need a break. I'm going to go for a walk, I'm going to go do something. I'm going to go take do something for me. That has nothing to do with work and nothing to do with, you know, any of that competitive stuff. So Jorden, we'll start with you. You know, I know you love mountain biking. I know you love paddling in a canoe. But what do you do outside of that to take care of you like when you need to just step away from it all and take a breath? What do you do?

Jorden  

Oh, jeez. Usually it involves skiing or biking or paddling I mean, that's, that's my, you know, my meditation. I mean, I woke up this morning I was on the bike by 7:30 and I get out of work. I'm going to go paddle that's what I like to do. That's what I need to do to, you know, function. And then be in a good mood, you know, I, my family knows if I don't paddle or ride or ski like, they know they can they, they know, hey, you need to go ride your bike, you know?

William Krieger  

And had they told you that I'm just curious, like, go ride your bike,

Jorden  

they know for sure.

William Krieger  

That's awesome. So Matt, what about you?

Matt  

You know, it's, it's interesting. So fortunately like you, Bill I love what I do for work, you know, I It's connected to the paddling in a certain way, but the work has some real I don't know what the right word I almost want to say like depressing aspects to when you work in environmental conservation. You know, it's, it's a dark world out there sometimes in the in the hope for being able to turn things around and, you know, really make an impact, sometimes it's hard. And so I will have some dark days where it's not that I don't, you know, it's not that I don't like the job, it's what the job entails is can be hard on me. And in those times, getting on the river is 100%. That's my therapy. You know, and that doesn't have to be, you know, going all out or you know, you know, paddling super hard, but I need to get on the water. And what's interesting about it is, in some ways, it allows me to disconnect from work and not think about that. But because the work that I do is related to the river, I also have some of my best thoughts sometimes will come to me while I'm out there immersed in it essentially. Now know, you know, my wife, she enjoys paddling with me, she's not so big on the racing thing. But the other thing that we would do that would be more like, you know, her I shouldn't say more different than, you know, this training, getting on the river and paddling hard, you know, we enjoy, we enjoy hiking, we got a couple great places to go and walk and it's you know, it's active, but it's not, you know, high heart rate getting, you know, crazy or anything. So we'd love just, you know, kind of going for walks, and then honestly, you know, going out to eat and having a beer, those kinds of things are big for us. You know, it really, things I look forward to every week, we don't have kids. And so, you know, we managed to try and get out for a nice dinner at least once or twice a week and I gotta got some great breweries that have sponsored me and my canoe racing career and they're always happy to see us. And so those things helped me a lot.

William Krieger  

Well, it's interesting, you say that my wife and I are both were empty nesters, my kids are all there's the kids are still on the payroll because they've never off the payroll. But they're all out of the house. So Friday night is date night for us. So I totally get it. We make sure that we go out and we have a good time. And we enjoy ourselves. So I can see the importance of that. Now I did want to ask a couple of technical questions about canoe racing. Jorden, you mentioned, I think that you said that that Matt is a good stern man. So it sounds like you each kind of have your own position in that canoe as to what you're doing. So Jorden, what's your position in how that differs from what Matt does.

Jorden  

Usually the bigger, bigger heavier guy is in the front, the bow guy usually sets the tempo, known in charge of watching for rocks and logs and obstacles in the river.

Matt  

So for people who, again, certainly never seen a canoe race, but maybe you've never even been in a canoe, you've got two seats in its traditional canoe ones in the front and ones in the back, the one on the front of the bow, and the one in the back is the stern. And as Jorden mentioned, just because of the shape of a canoe, it tends to balance better with the heavier person in the front, because they have to sit further away from the end of the boat because their legs are in front of them. Whereas the person in the back can slide all the way to the back end of the boat because their legs aren't in front of them. So you tend to have you know, the smaller, lighter person in the back and the person in the front is a little heavier. Well, there's another thing to it tends to go along with weight conveniently. And that is, you often have not always, and this is important, but you often have the more powerful paddler in the front. And it's because when they apply power in their stroke, it doesn't affect the steering of the canoe as much as it does in the back. When you're in the back, you have more leverage. So when you really apply power from the backseat, you are able to turn the canoe much more quickly than someone in the front applying that same amount of power. Well, if steering were all that we cared about, well, maybe you would put the powerful person in the back, and you'd be able to steer better theoretically. But in our sport, you know, you actually want to be able to put as much power into going forward as you can and so by putting the more powerful person in the front seat, more of their power is put into making the boat go forward. And then the person in the back has that advantage of leverage to be able to steer the canoe and so my size has just lended me to being in the stern. A lot of my career not all As I say, I'd probably split 80/20. In the several marathons that I've done between bow and stern. But it's, it's pretty hard for me to find someone other than a woman to be smaller than me to go into Stern. So when I do paddle bow, often, we don't have quite the right balance that you'd be looking for. Jorden, I, this is, you know, maybe a little bit geeky for your audience, or a little bit too much information for your audience. But I feel like we did some things quite a bit different than what's conventional. I mean, Jorden is bigger than me. And he's certainly more powerful than me. So in that sense, we’re conventional. But what we did, that I think is a little bit different than some of the teams that would have been successful in the past, is Jorden actually did quite a bit of steering from the front, especially up where the river is small, and twisty and technical, you know, we just kind of worked out a way for, for him, as the guy who knows the river and has spent more time on it than me, he was actually able to kind of drive from the front, more than I think has been done in the past. And that really makes things easier on me and allows me to put more of my power into just taking it where he's, he I can see where he's trying to go with it. And I'm just following you know; I'm just helping him get there. Versus like, being behind him and trying to, you know, show him where I'm trying to go, which is not as obvious as you can see someone's body posture and stuff, when they're in front of you, you can tell what they're trying to do. So if that's the person that's kind of leading the boat, if you can work it out it, I think there's some real advantages to it.

William Krieger  

So we look at our, our corporate caring culture, one of the things we talked about Consumers Energy is agility, right. So we, we all know our place and what our job is, but it sounds like just like in our business, sometimes we have to step outside of that, and do it a little bit differently to make sure that everything goes well and great explanation from both of you. Because that explains a lot about why my sister and I attempted to kill each other in canoes as a couple of times, because we were just going in circles. But that's a different story for a different time, I think, you know, we are getting close to the end of the podcast. But before we go, I would like to give each of you just the opportunity to leave the audience with a message. So I always ask my guests, you know, what would you like our audience to take away from our conversation today? So Matt, I'll let you go first on that.

Matt  

Thanks, Bill. I mean, you know, just sort of assuming that a lot of your audience has some kind of connection or awareness with Consumers. What I want to say as someone from Northern Indiana, a place where we have no public land, and no beautiful rivers, that the management of those dams and the Au Sable River as a resource for Northern Michigan, is really incredible in the, I guess, the cooperation between the power company, and the people that put on this race is just really appreciated. And I don't know, I mean, even beyond the race, I feel like before I ever knew there was such a thing as the Asaba canoe marathon, my wife and I went up canoeing on the river and the portages, were all really well marked. And, you know, it was just this incredible experience. Whereas around here, we got dams that they don't even have a designated port, you know, you're trespassing on private property, trying to find a way around these things. And so the fact that you've, and I say you, the fact that the company has been mindful of the recreational aspect of this resource, and sort of developed it with that in mind, let alone supporting and sponsoring this event that that's focused on it is really incredible. So for folks out there, what I would want to know is like, check this thing out. I mean, not necessarily race sure, yeah, go check out the race. It'll be fun, I'll make sure you cheer for boat 63 If you're going to do that, but really just go get on the saddle, I mean, just go get on that river and just experience it. It's, it's really magical. So I feel like canoeing is a way, especially down here, where I live, to get out into nature in a way that you can't otherwise, you know, the, the river carries you along, you're moving through, you know, incredible places. And so that is really what motivates and inspires my time on the water is just a desire to be out there. So I would say to you, you know, try to find some, find some of that time if you can, if you get the opportunity or make it make that an opportunity.

William Krieger  

Well, you know, Matt, and I couldn't agree more. I know that in my time spent in the National Guard and going to Grayling, at the end of what we call quote unquote summer camp. Many of us would get in the river and either you know, just go tubing down the river or jumping in a canoe and having a couple of beers that we talked about earlier, and just really enjoying it. And because I'm Michigan is very easy to, you know, take it for granted that we have all of that. But, you know, reflecting back on it, that was a great way to, to, you know, kind of blow off some steam after a couple of weeks of really hard training, to enjoy camaraderie to get together with friends. And it was all because of the river and because of the city of Grayling. So, you know, thanks for putting that memory back in my head. I appreciate it. Jorden, what about you?

Jorden  

Well, as Matt had said, you know, the work that Consumers has done, not even just for the canoe marathon, but for public access, fishing, access, boating access road ends. And it's just, it's amazing what's been done in the last few years, let alone on top of the marathon. What consumers has done for the marathon is it It's unfathomable of the support, they're given us the paddlers, spectators, you know, opening up their dams for the race to go through there. And I mean, even this year there, I know there's a new, you know, there stairs, they're actually instead of, you know, getting out at a wall, it makes it a tad bit easier on us after 10 hours in a boat. And then the, for the spectators to it's a lot nicer.

William Krieger  

Well, again, thanks both of you for joining the podcast today. It was great to get to know you, and to learn a little bit more about canoeing. And maybe next time I go out, I'll be a little bit better at it. Clearly not at the level that you two guys are, but maybe someday. For anyone who is interested though. The Au Sable marathon takes place the last full weekend in July in this year, as we were talking. It is the latest date possible. So July 30, through the 31st will be the actual marathon, but come up to Grayling a little bit early because there's a lot of fun stuff that goes on the weekend before as well as that whole week is really a celebration, culminating in this event. And then I'm sure there's a lot of fun things that happen afterwards as well. So Jorden, Matt, thanks again for coming on the podcast.

Matt  

You bet. Thank you, Bill.

Jorden  

Thanks for having us.

William Krieger  

Thank you to the audience for listening in today. The Me You Us podcast is proudly sponsored by Consumers Energy leaving Michigan better than we found it. Remember, you can find the Me You Us podcast on all major podcasting platforms. So be sure to go out find us and subscribe. If you or someone you know is in crisis, please contact the Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. That's 1-800-273-8255 If you are a veteran or know a Veteran who is in crisis, you can call 1-800-273-8255 and press one for the Veterans Crisis Line. And remember to tune in every Wednesday as we talk about the things that impact your personal well being.